Introduction
In case you haven’t made a decision for 2022 but (otherwise you’ve already fallen off the bandwagon for the one you probably did choose), it’s not too late to reset and reaffirm your intentions for the remaining 11 months of the yr. But when typical targets like studying extra or spending much less time on social media are leaving you uninspired, you is likely to be searching for one thing totally different to shake issues up.
Ximena Vengoechea recommends one which’s most likely not on too many decision lists: Striving to turn into a greater listener.
“It’s quite common to have a objective to work in your presentation expertise or turn into a greater public speaker. There are tons of trainings you possibly can take, and we’ve typically agreed culturally that these are necessary expertise to hone. However listening is the opposite a part of that equation — and we do not pay very a lot consideration to it,” she says.
Vengoechea is a practiced listener. As a seasoned consumer analysis chief, she’s led and noticed hundreds of interviews, working at firms like Pinterest, Twitter and LinkedIn to listen to extra about folks’s wants and motivations so as to design higher merchandise. “As consumer researchers, now we have to attach shortly with strangers, generally referring to delicate subjects in entrance of an viewers. It requires asking open-ended questions, staying impartial and centering the dialogue on another person,” she says.
Tapping into greater than a decade of expertise doing this work, Vengoechea fairly actually wrote the e-book on listening, publishing “Hear Like You Imply it: Reclaiming the Misplaced Artwork of True Connection” final yr. The subject is, in fact, extremely well timed. “These previous few years we’ve all been battling alienation and disconnection. It’s an odd mixture of feeling each remoted after which overwhelmed after we do attempt to join with others. Even after we’re in a position to collect in particular person, emails, social media notifications, to-do lists and our personal emotions can stand in the best way of true connection and deeper conversations,” she says.
Whereas this commentary could appear notably related within the realm of our private relationships, it’s simply as salient within the skilled area. “While you truly deeply hearken to somebody, you get to know them a lot better, which goes to let you work with them higher. You are going to get better alignment extra shortly if you’re in a position to actually pay attention and listen to out somebody’s concepts, slightly than simply fine-tuning your personal pitch,” says Vengoechea. “We frequently consider miscommunication as a problem with our personal content material or supply — that if we might tweak the what or the how, our message could be more practical. However that perpetuates a dynamic the place we view our counterparts as an viewers, not as collaborators.”
Vengoechea sees listening as a ability that’s notably necessary to give attention to within the startup setting. “There’s usually this concept in startups that pace is a very powerful factor. However generally there’s such nice urgency to maneuver ahead with a specific mission that you just haven’t heard out the remainder of the staff, and that is going to trigger you to stumble in a while as a result of you do not have buy-in,” she says. “Or relating to product constructing, you do not decelerate to truly hear what your clients want. You’ve the founder or product chief’s conviction that you could ship a sure characteristic, however you simply wind up losing dev cycles as a result of nobody’s utilizing it.”
So many startups are taking part in a recreation of hurry up and wait — sprinting to get someplace solely to later understand it wasn’t even the appropriate vacation spot. Typically you need to go sluggish to maneuver shortly. Investing time into listening to your colleagues or attending to know your customers usually finally ends up being a faster path to success.
On this unique interview, Vengoechea provides up a tactical information for how one can turn into a greater listener at work, wherever you sit within the startup org chart. Beginning with a number of elementary expertise, she goes on to supply each stage and functional-specific recommendation you can put to make use of instantly. From how gross sales leaders can get extra snug with silence, to how managers can higher join with their direct stories, we expect each tip is value heeding, regardless of your position.
In case you’re trying to get began with this work, step one is constructing what Vengoechea calls a listening mindset. “Which means you are bringing humility, curiosity, and empathy into each dialog. It sounds easy sufficient, however more often than not, we’re not deliberately coming in with that in thoughts. We’re coming in with our personal assumptions, opinions and expectations — and people can cloud what the opposite particular person has to say,” she says.
“Typically we’re participating in floor listening — listening to sufficient to be well mannered or greedy the literal sentences which can be popping out, however lacking the deeper which means and probability for emotional connection.”
Most of us pay attention nicely sufficient, however with out deliberate effort, we are inclined to navigate by means of conversations with important blind spots. It’s all too simple for us to study solely a sliver of the complete story — or misunderstand it totally.
A listening mindset requires a bit extra legwork. “You are specializing in getting curious in regards to the different particular person, about what they’re sharing and why they’re sharing that with you. Humility requires shifting from the position of a trainer — which is how many people come into dialog — to that of a pupil, the place you’re attempting to study,” says Vengoechea. “And then you definitely’re exercising empathy, attempting to know that different particular person’s expertise.”
Listed here are two of her fast suggestions that can assist you construct humility, curiosity, and empathy into your on a regular basis listening habits:
Tip #1: Apply mindfulness to keep away from projecting.
You’ve possible caught your self rehearsing your subsequent sentence in a dialog, sheepishly realizing you’ve misplaced monitor of what the opposite particular person is saying. “A standard floor listening mistake is getting trapped in our personal narratives. We gear up to reply to one thing, let our ideas wander after we’re bored, begin planning our persuasive argument, or attempt to circle again to a subject we need to return to,” says Vengoechea.
“We additionally usually mission our personal concepts, experiences or feelings onto others, speeding to inform a associated story or inadvertently placing phrases in somebody’s mouth. For instance, say you’re speaking with a co-worker they usually say, ‘I’ve received a lot on my plate.’ You soar in and attempt to join by saying, ‘Oh me too, isn’t it actually energizing to be on so many tasks?’ when in actuality, your co-worker is definitely pressured by it.”
To beat this reflex, strive winding down, not up. “When a doable response or associated thought enters your thoughts, slightly than gearing as much as say one thing or weighing in instantly, merely observe it as an alternative,” she says. “Once we’re in a position to desk these ideas and cease planning our responses or injecting our personal beliefs and assumptions, we are able to higher give attention to what our dialog companions are literally saying within the second.’’
The simplest place to be in dialog is in our personal heads. Empathy may be the antidote to our tendency to mission — we don’t must share in others’ direct expertise, we simply must think about it.
Tip #2: However bear in mind it’s not not about you.
That mentioned, listening isn’t totally in regards to the different particular person. “As you begin attempting to turn into a greater listener, you’ll understand that a lot of it revolves round you and your response — in case you’re discovering somebody boring, that’s on you in a method,” says Vengoechea.
“Listening is not merely about staying quiet, nodding alongside and simply being a vessel for what the opposite particular person has to say. It’s an lively course of — not a passive exercise. Doing the work to determine the way you have a tendency to indicate up in conversations, placing within the effort to get curious and ask questions, observing cues and physique language and going out of your method to embody others all requires work in your half.”
It’s simple to imagine that listening is merely about exhibiting up and being attentive to the opposite particular person, however it’s additionally deeply tied to being attentive to ourselves.
Under, Vengoechea takes us by means of totally different layers of the org chart, sharing suggestions tailor-made to the distinctive listening challenges at totally different ranges.
For founders and execs:
The upper up you’re in a company, the extra of us you’ve hanging in your each phrase. However as your purview expands, data move and connection to the remainder of the staff tends to constrict. Sure conferences fall out of your calendar. Choices you was once concerned in drop off your radar. You’ve much less of a pulse on how the rank-and-file are feeling.
“One of many widespread challenges is determining the place to lean in and the place to lean out. What do you’re feeling snug delegating to another person to be the listener for and what do you actually must be there for?” says Vengoechea. “However as you make these selections on the place to focus, know that will probably be actually apparent to folks if you’re not listening. Everybody can inform when an govt has clearly deprioritized one thing. Ensuring folks nonetheless really feel heard by delegating and clearly speaking about that’s necessary.”
Particularly as an organization scales, you possibly can’t be in each dialog. Simply understand that folk will take discover of the place you do spend your listening time.
One other widespread problem is feeling out of the loop, particularly when unhealthy information doesn’t appear to be winding its method to the highest. “How founders and executives reply to data that is coming their method goes to dictate what data comes their method sooner or later,” she says. “If an exec is absolutely enthusiastic a few new product concept, everybody round them will floor it extra usually. If a founder appears to be like bored if you discuss retention, or they get mad if you discuss lacking targets, then of us is not going to carry it up as incessantly.”
This additionally spills over into shutting down creativity. “In case you come right into a dialog and at all times have all of the solutions or always chime in along with your opinion, that doesn’t create the most secure setting for folks to check out totally different concepts or carry you half-baked proposals. You might actually need to have interaction extra in that collaborative forwards and backwards, however by advantage of popping out swinging, you’ve got shut down a dialog.”
As a frontrunner, take note of how your personal response is closing off a set of conversations.
Along with spending extra time quietly taking in others’ views earlier than providing your personal, getting a second set of eyes may be useful. “Ask long-tenured staff or fellow executives, ‘Hey, if you observe me in conferences, what might I do to reply to others extra productively?’ Or ‘I’ve observed that I do not get data from this staff about this matter, why would possibly that be?’”
For managers:
Match your mode to the second.
“When considering by means of how one can present up on your direct stories as a greater listener, it’s necessary to recollect there isn’t a one-size-fits-all method. However one instrument that may be useful is figuring out your default listening mode,” says Vengoechea.
“It’s the pure filter that you just have a tendency to make use of if you present up in dialog. For instance, you are available with a mediating listening mindset, the place you are listening for everyone’s position in a sure state of affairs. Otherwise you may need a validating listening mode, the place you’re searching for methods to affirm the opposite particular person,” she says.
“Every of those modes have their ups and their downs. The hot button is to establish yours after which intestine verify your self to see if that is what’s wanted in a specific dialog — or if you could change up your type,” she says. Right here’s an instance: “Say you’re naturally coming in with a problem-solving listening mode. In a 1:1, you’re scanning for issues and options. However when a direct report provides you an replace of all of the issues they’re engaged on, you would possibly hear that as, ‘Ah, they’ve an excessive amount of on their plate, I’ve to take one thing off,’ when in actuality, they may have been sending a message like, ‘Hey, have a look at every thing I am engaged on. I am happy with that — and I need to just remember to know.’ In that case, your useful problem-solving will possible really feel like micromanagement.”
Being an efficient listener is about constructing self-awareness round the way you naturally present up in dialog.
Listed here are a number of pointers for placing this into apply:
Take this quiz to do a deeper diagnostic of your default listening mode.
Vocalize your intestine. “You possibly can even say to your direct report, ‘Usually, my intuition right here could be to give you recommendation — is that what you are searching for?’ Typically being prepared to say, ‘Regardless that I’m the supervisor, I do not essentially know the appropriate response right here — what could be helpful for you?’”
Open up house. “There’s energy in asking ‘Would you want me to pay attention, or brainstorm options with you?’ Typically they simply need to vent and it’s cathartic. As a supervisor chances are you’ll hate it, and it may be unproductive if it occurs too usually, however often creating house for that’s a part of your position.”
Deepen the dialog to keep away from the doorknob second.
It’s simple for 1:1s to fall into a well-known rhythm, one the place you by no means stray too removed from the floor and the extra uncomfortable issues go unsaid. Vengoechea has seen this problem crop up for managers time and time once more.
“As you construct a relationship along with your direct report over time, it’s necessary to concentrate to patterns. For instance, in remedy, purchasers will usually carry up a very powerful factor within the remaining jiffy of a session — it’s referred to as a doorknob remark. Proper earlier than you begin wrapping up, you say the factor that you just truly wished to say the entire time, however wanted the whole hour to muster sufficient braveness. And also you generally see the same factor in 1:1s,” says Vengoechea.
In case you’re a supervisor trying to deepen the conversations you’re having along with your direct report, strive asking this one query: “What would you save for the top of our 1:1 right this moment? Let’s begin with that.”
For direct stories:
On the flip facet of that dynamic, direct stories can battle with totally different points. “The primary query I get from of us who’ve learn my e-book isn’t about be a greater listener, however how about how they may be heard and cope with of us who received’t hearken to them,” says Vengoechea.
Summoning the nerve to talk up is just one a part of the equation. “The significance of being crystal clear along with your message is commonly neglected. Typically we actually assume that now we have requested for assist, however often we do not achieve this explicitly. We do not say, ‘I desperately want you to take a mission off my plate, I’m drowning.’ As a substitute we are saying, ‘Nicely, I’ve all these tasks, and it is powerful however it’s okay, don’t fear about me,’ secretly hoping our supervisor will say, ‘Oh, that seems like an excessive amount of,’” says Vengoechea.
“One of the best factor that you are able to do to get your message throughout is to be tremendous clear and use easy language: I need assistance with X, I’m sad with Y, I am battling Z.”
Typically, we expect that we’re expressing our wants clearly and we’re truly speaking round them. Probably the most direct path to being heard is to speak our wants explicitly.
Under, Vengoechea walks us by means of a few of the pitfalls and listening challenges of us in several features can encounter, sharing suggestions that may aid you stage up in your personal area:
Product:
Product leaders face a wide selection of challenges rooted in listening, from eradicating the bias of their very own product imaginative and prescient, to successfully shepherding inside groups to ship a product, to studying all that they will from customers. We’ll sort out every one in flip.
Preserving your personal bias at bay:
Take the widespread situation of a PM at an early-stage startup who’s conducting their very own buyer analysis. “The best way you construction your questions is essential. Everybody can fall right into a sample of asking main or biased questions, however it’s notably acute for PMs given the character of their position,” says Vengoechea.
“An instance of that might be saying, ‘I’ll present you two screens. Which display screen do you want higher, display screen A or display screen B?’ This sounds completely nice, besides that it implies that the consumer likes one, whereas they may hate each of these screens. Many individuals have a bias of desirous to please the interviewer, which will get you a less-than-honest reply. So shifting away from close-ended inquiries to extra open-ended questions — ‘What do you consider these two screens?’ — is a small instance of being conscious of your affect in a dialog.”
Influencing inside stakeholders:
When making an attempt to win over engineers and designers internally in a product roadmap battle or below the strain of a deadline, the PM faces a distinct problem.
“In consumer analysis, there’s a quite common idea that no matter you are designing has to fulfill a core want. These wants may be apparent and specific, however usually they’re latent and underlying — you need to tease out what’s occurring. Listening for these wants is essential in consumer interviews, and likewise in getting product alignment—particularly if you’re relying on a gaggle of stakeholders from totally different groups to get one thing out the door,” says Vengoechea.
“Shifting out of the product org perspective might help you get a greater sense of what your inside companions are dealing with. Phrases like ‘We’re working as arduous as we are able to,’ or ‘We’re operating out of steam,’ or ‘If it have been as much as me,’ is likely to be clues of a necessity for recognition, a necessity for extra assets, a distinction of opinion, or a scarcity of alignment.”
Everyone is at all times bringing a necessity right into a dialog. The product managers who can spot these cues will resolve the inner challenges they face a lot sooner.
Maximizing what you possibly can study from customers:
“PMs have this fascinating position the place they’ve to know the consumer however in addition they have to know the market, the gross sales staff, the technical necessities, the strategic imaginative and prescient. And since you’re the go-between for all these totally different departments, you spend a very good chunk of your time explaining or convincing,” says Vengoechea.
“However toggling out of that trainer mode is necessary. To illustrate a consumer would not perceive a move or the aim of a characteristic. PMs may need a powerful impulse to override and say, ‘Oh, nicely, that is the way it works,’ or ‘That is how you’ll use it.’ Then the consumer thinks to themselves, ‘Oh, okay, I would not use it that method, however I am most likely not who you are designing this for.’ Now you’re lacking out on that useful suggestions. Step again into that pupil mode and enter into each session with a studying mindset. Ask your self: The truth that it is not apparent to this particular person, what does that inform me?”
Product managers are used to explaining the product and their imaginative and prescient to all these totally different events. However relating to interviewing a consumer, their job isn’t to elucidate, however to pay attention and study.
Design:
“One of many listening challenges for design features is that as a result of they’ve created the expertise or prototype that we’re placing in entrance of individuals, the suggestions can really feel rather more private,” says Vengoechea. “When issues really feel private and when our ego is concerned, it will get actually arduous to pay attention.”
Within the e-book, she describes these as hotspots — emotional areas and tender subjects in dialog. “It may very well be one thing taboo, or a extra private hazard zone, something that makes you’re feeling extra emotionally charged and overpowers your efforts to pay attention with empathy. Within the case of a designer, it’s usually the entire arduous work that they put into this design. Possibly they needed to battle for his or her imaginative and prescient with the PM, or they really feel like they’ve loads on the road when it comes to their profession development,” she says.
“If somebody says one thing that rubs in opposition to your emotional attachment or ego indirectly, it may be arduous to listen to that out. It may be simpler as an alternative to rationalize why that particular person is unsuitable or to dismiss it outright. That may appear to be shutting down, reacting defensively, or getting demoralized.”
The antidote? Begin by recognizing the sample. “Simply acknowledging, ‘Oh, I am having an emotional response to this,’ or ‘I am feeling unhealthy about that suggestions,’ may be highly effective. Noticing the way you bodily really feel in your physique, which is the place usually we really feel it first, can also be useful. Are you feeling a tightening of the throat, or a pounding of the chest?” says Vengoechea.
“When you possibly can tune into that after which label it, that helps diffuse the sensation. Strive phrases like, ‘I am having a powerful response to what this participant is saying about my designs, however this isn’t truly about me proper now,’ or ‘I am feeling a bit bit attacked in critique right this moment, however I do know that is not what my friends are attempting to do.’ You possibly can even say, ‘I am tremendous activated proper now. I want a five-minute breather, after which I’ll come again to this dialog.’”
UX analysis:
UX researchers could already be robust listeners, however even on her dwelling turf, Vengoechea acknowledges there’s at all times room for enchancment.
“One of many issues that you just see, notably in early-stage researchers, is an actual attachment to the moderators information which has your checklist of questions. There is a robust sense of, ‘If I hit each query, I’ll get the insights I want.’ However if you’re so targeted on that script, you truly usually are not listening as a lot to what’s occurring in actual time. You are not in a position to pivot and reply to what’s being mentioned,” she says.
“If you need to use your set of questions as a information, not a script, you possibly can actually take note of what somebody is saying in actual time. That’s the place you possibly can comply with them down probably productive tangents — which is the place the insights are going to come back from.”
For the extra seasoned UX leaders, Vengoechea flags a distinct hurdle. “In case you’ve been in a sure area for some time, you construct up experience, which in fact may be extremely useful. However there comes a degree the place you begin to predict the responses that you just hear in periods. I labored with advertisers, builders, shoppers and located that time with every viewers,” she says.
“However if I are available with the angle of ‘Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do know this already,’ I am not going to get anyplace. That’s going to indicate up in how I ask my questions, in how a lot time I give individuals to reply, and I’ll solely verify what I already know,” she says. “For instance, I labored with many SMBs and received to know their issues — they lack assets, time, cash. But when I went in considering it could be a straightforward interview, I’d possible study precisely these three issues. As a substitute, if I went in and thought, ‘What else? Or to what extent? Or in what methods? Or when is it worse? When is it simpler?’ then that might be a distinct dialog.”
You’ve to have the ability to herald your experience as a method of deepening the dialog — versus flattening it.
Engineering:
“Engineers do not at all times get credit score right here.I’ve labored with many very user-centered engineers. There are tons of very inventive engineers who’ve concepts for merchandise, options, or consumer analysis, and are nice at listening to their counterparts on different groups,” Vengoechea says.
“For engineers, getting empathetic and curious may give you a greater sense of how the remainder of the org works. Within the context of studying from customers, it will probably additionally make what you’re constructing really feel much less summary, particularly in case you’re on the back-end and it’s not instantly apparent how what you’re engaged on goes to indicate up in somebody’s on a regular basis world.”
If this can be a ability you need to work on, right here’s her suggestion. “Participating in a giant listening tour to speak extra to different groups, or interacting with customers immediately in analysis periods or gross sales calls is one method to construct this muscle. If that’s not your type, begin smaller.
“As an preliminary step, I’d take into consideration listening not simply when it comes to what you are listening to, but additionally what you are seeing. You possibly can apply in quiet, unobtrusive methods in a gathering by going past the precise work being mentioned and observing the general group dynamics. What’s being mentioned, and what’s not being mentioned? Whose opinion is being repeated, whose opinion is being credited, whose opinion is being ignored, and why would possibly that be?”
Gross sales:
“With gross sales, you’ve a really clear objective: You are attempting to shut a deal and promote your resolution as the resolution. Which means you’ve got already received a sure listening filter in place. You are scanning for which a part of a possible buyer’s drawback your staff can resolve — or in case you can reframe that drawback into one thing you can resolve. However in case you’re not cautious, then you are going to miss the precise drawback,” says Vengoechea.
Main with discovery round their drawback, versus promoting your resolution is an efficient place to start out. However she additionally has one other suggestion for people who spend their days speaking to prospects: Embracing silence as a method.
“This may be counterintuitive as a result of we consider silence as notably awkward, or an indication that we’re not connecting. However asking somebody a query and giving them the house to reply is an underutilized instrument. Taking a beat earlier than you chime in along with your pitch, or ready a hair longer than is snug earlier than pivoting towards your resolution will often yield one thing insightful,” she says.
“It is a method that we use in lab periods. In case you’re naturally impatient, simply depend to 10 in your head. You most likely will not even make it to 10 earlier than the opposite particular person chimes in.”
Create more room for folks in your conversations. That awkward second of silence often takes place simply earlier than some nugget of reality or stroke of perception spills out.
Individuals staff:
People on the folks staff should do loads of listening, particularly lately. However in fact, there are nuances relying in your particular position.
For recruiters attempting to shut a candidate:
Spend extra time asking extra questions than pitching. “Typically there is a dynamic with a recruiter of ‘I’ll promote you the corporate, the imaginative and prescient of the place we’ll be in 5 years.’ However if you’re in promote mode, it’s simple to miss the facility of slowing down and asking extra questions of the candidate to get a way of whether or not it is actually going to be a very good match, particularly in right this moment’s aggressive market.”
On the subject of recruiting you possibly can at all times inform somebody what they need to hear, however inside six months you may each know whether or not it is true. Listening for what a candidate is actually searching for as an alternative of simply pitching will prevent wasted cycles.
“And I perceive the impulse, you’ve got received headcount quotas that you just need to fill. However taking your time to be sure that the particular person is an efficient match will prevent from having the identical dialog six months from now as a result of it wasn’t a very good match,” she says. “Which means doing all your finest to sluggish the dialog down, creating more room by means of silence, and perhaps asking one other query when you’ve an intuition to pitch. My go-tos are questions like, ‘What are the hardest elements of your job? The simplest? Probably the most thrilling?’ These are open-ended sufficient that solutions can cowl something from resourcing constraints, to workplace politics, to the nitty gritty of the core job.”
For folks staff members navigating powerful conversations with staff:
Up to now few years, folks groups have been dealing with arduous dialog after arduous dialog, whether or not it’s round layoffs, distant work insurance policies, or supporting staff going by means of difficult occasions.
“While you’re having a very emotional dialog, be sure that all people’s getting no matter breaks they want. There’s a way that we simply should cope with our feelings within the enterprise world, that we are able to’t cry or interrupt this assembly with our emotions. However we’re all human and the pandemic has actually reaffirmed our humanity,” she says. “It is okay to ask for a pause if you could. It is also okay to do that on behalf of another person, and empathetic listening helps clue you into that. Asking, ‘Hey, do we have to pause for a minute?’ or kindly making an excuse like requesting a bio break so that you’re hitting pause on their behalf may be tremendously useful.”
One other tip is to get snug with inaction. “Typically after we’re having emotional conversations, there’s no motion that must be taken, which is difficult for us to take a seat with as a result of we frequently really feel that now we have to do one thing, whether or not it’s fixing the issue, giving recommendation, or shifting the ball ahead. We anticipate a sure momentum in conversations,” says Vengoechea.
Typically there’s nothing to do besides simply to pay attention and bear witness, to provide that different particular person the house to have no matter robust response or tough opinion they might have. All the time remind your self that that’s an choice.
In fact, a number of years of conversations like these have left many leaders feeling drained. “Recharging and recovering from empathetic listening boils right down to processing and sharing your expertise indirectly. That does not imply you could go shout it from the rooftops — for a few of us it feels actually good to course of this in dialog with others, for others that sounds horrible and solitude goes to be rather more restorative as an alternative,” she says.
“When you’ve that tendency to play that empathetic ear, often you try this all over the place — at work and at dwelling. A few of your relationships could even be outlined by that. That may imply you need to apply distancing, setting boundaries, and politely ending a dialog. In case you’re discovering that a few of these relationships are actually off kilter or perhaps somebody is absolutely benefiting from that empathetic ear, beginning to train self-advocacy is necessary.”
Once we pay attention with out having our personal wants met, we danger changing into listening martyrs — repeatedly placing others’ wants earlier than our personal in dialog, which places our sense of self and connection to others in danger.
Cowl picture by Getty Photos / Cathy Scola. Photograph of Ximena by Kara Brodgesell. Illustrations by Ximena Vengoechea.
